I’m going to Pennsylvania till Friday/Saturday, and there’s no wifi there, so I’ll be offline till then :(
it’s really not a coincidence that winter soldier is being talked about as the best marvel movie yet
when you give women and poc the same importance and development as you do your white males, amazing things happen
#like you would NOT have this movie without natasha sam maria and nick#chris sebastian and redford were amazing in it but to have women and poc be PIVOTAL to the plot#and be actual fleshed out important characters is just#!!!!!! idek how to describe it#but it also makes me sad because this movie PROVED that it’s totally possible to have more diversity#it’s just that people aren’t willing to include it in their films
I finally figured out the best physical opponent for Widow holy crap.
This is a guy who has studied the moves of every single fighter known to man. His gimmicks would be easy to duplicate, it’d be a cool way to show Natasha could beat all the Avengers if they tried to fight her and he’s one of…
The thing about a Black Widow film is that it wouldn’t necessarily need a “big bad”. I would like to think that Marvel Studios, in its attempts to distance itself from the formulaic approach to superhero adaptations that failed so miserably in the past, would understand that this film cannot take the black-and-white approach if it hopes to succeed in accurately capturing the source material. Discounting a rich and complex history in order to forcefully insert characters and villains who don’t belong in her canon is doing both Natasha and her fans a disservice.
I say this because, while Natasha may not have a rogues gallery equal to that of other heroes, any number of her experiences are incredibly film-worthy. Others have spoken at length about this, pointing out particular arcs that would be well-suited to an adaptation. I think the point I’m trying to make is that giving Natasha a film, only to frame it around characters and a plot that bear no significant relationship to her and to her struggles, is a pretty nonsense way to go about things. Natasha has literally fifty years worth of stories under her belt; why waste them, why waste their potential?
The thing is, Natasha doesn’t need help. It certainly isn’t at all true that she has no defining personality traits, and nor is it true that the themes and concepts relevant to her character couldn’t possibly hold a movie. In fact, arguably, the release of The Winter Soldier only makes her origins and her position within the MCU that much more critical.
And, frankly the last thing on Earth I want to see is Marvel Studios’ sole female-led film being overrun by more male characters who shouldn’t even be there in the first place. There is no need to pluck unrelated characters and villains from obscurity in order to make her “more interesting”; the point is that she’s already interesting.
(As an aside, if you would actually like to see Natasha and the Punisher go toe to toe, they do so in Punisher: War Zone #2—but that’s not really reason enough to make Frank Castle the co-star of Natasha’s movie.)
I hate to disagree with you, but we’re not just preaching to a comic audience. We’re preaching to a movie one too. And additionally, a mostly male audience.
Sure, I hope every female under the sun goes to see this movie. But the truth is is that not everyone’s going to want to see it just because it has widow.
I mean, look at Daredevil as an example of a character who didn’t have a good enemy to fight or really a good story to back it.
The point is that Natasha needs someone to fight. And the red room/Russians cant do all the work for a movie release.
It’s perfectly fine for you to disagree. I am aware that this film will be catering to purely-MCU fans, as well as those who are more familiar with 616-canon. But, that being the case, what makes you think that Punisher (whose 2004 film managed to gain the company more than it cost in terms of box office revenue, but received 29% on Rotten Tomatoes and ultimately didn’t leave a significant mark on non-comics fans) and Taskmaster (whose movie has been in development hell since 2008, and who is arguably a lesser known canon) would aid a Black Widow film in appealing to fans of the Marvel Studios movie franchise?
I would argue that Natasha (who has risen to a modest but undeniable level of fame since The Avengers hit it big) is better known to MCU-fans than Taskmaster, and equally as recognizable as Punisher. If I were asked to name-drop her to anyone in my age bracket who happened by outside my window, I would honestly be surprised if they couldn’t identify her; it wouldn’t shock me, though, if they hadn’t heard of Taskmaster.
If that in itself isn’t enough, Natasha will co-star in The Winter Soldier (I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the Brubaker arc this film will follow, but she has a very important part to play in the grand scheme of things) and Feige has confirmed that Natasha’s origins will be explored in the Avengers sequel. Given the sheer amount of exposure this will give a character who is already fairly well known and has a considerable following amongst fans of both the movies and comics, this film will definitely have more backing from the fans than Iron Man did when it hit it big back in ‘08. Make of that what you will.
In addition, I think that the male “majority” of comic book readers and superhero movie watchers has dwindled considerably in recent years. The Marvel Cinematic Universe has an enormous female following, as do the comics themselves (I believe the latest statistics had the female reader population weighing in somewhere around the mid-40% range, which is in the minority but not really significantly so). Marvel has been investing in merchandise for women because there’s a market for it—because there are many female fans, unappreciated and often unwelcome as they are. Furthermore, I would like to think that even male fans can suck it up and watch a movie which headlines a woman, and boasts a cast of various other women; perhaps they can even manage to engage with it—after all, female fans have been forced to content themselves with male-dominated casts for ages.
At the end of the day, honestly, the potential popularity of the film is the last of my concerns. Marvel’s marketing executives have managed to sell fans and non-fans on Guardians of the Galaxy, which doesn’t exactly have a relatable premise, and didn’t have a single character in its main cast whom I would expect the general non-comics-reading population to know by name. If they can manage that, they should have no trouble whatsoever selling them on a superhero who will have appeared in four MCU films by 2015. If they set their mind to it, marketing Black Widow would be a piece of cake by comparison.
As for the second point, obviously Natasha needs opposition for there to be a movie; but, like I said, she doesn’t lack it. She lacks an iconic, central villain, sure—but then again, Malekith is one of Thor’s most famed villains in 616, and he was a shrinking violet in Thor: The Dark World. Even Iron Man 3 made an intentional mockery of the Mandarin for the purposes of its plot, when it could have easily implemented this same, cut-and-dry, villain versus hero template instead.
What I’m saying is that the MCU has proven superhero movies are ripe for change, and the Black Widow movie is an ideal platform for that. Yelena Belova, under the thumb of The Red Room (now 2R) is much more than a stereotypical villain, and would probably be ideal to fill the position of “villain” you’re looking for, although I use that term lightly. Like Natasha, she has been used and abused by her country, and there is a fascinating dichotomy at play between the two of them. Inserting Yelena would allow for all the kick/punching that every superhero film calls for, while also accessing some of the themes central to Natasha, tapping into her experience and her ruthlessness and her enduring compassion and how all of these traits clash with one another when challenged. Take away Yelena, replace her with a nameless villain (separate from Natasha, and from her legend) and what does that leave you with but fighting? What is the point?
needless to say, major major spoilers ahead. do not read if you haven’t watched it.
disclaimer: not mine, other people’s, also whenever i mention comics, know that i am drawing on ari’s tony stark tag and wikipedia.
here is some basic information you need to know about the movie
- this movie was not directed by jon favreau
- who did the first two iron mans
- this movie was directed by shane black, who did kiss kiss bang bang with rdj and co-wrote this film
- so it was a lot like kiss kiss bang bang
- this movie is set directly after the avengers
- this movie was really funny
my overall reaction to the film is that it was a really good film. really really good - much more nuanced and intricate and complex than iron man 2, which people agree is the ginger stepchild of the fanchise, so maybe it’s not that hard to get better than that. the point is: this film is good, but this film marks, more than any other marvel film to date, the crossing of the rubicon, the die is cast, the point of no return, etc, etc. it’s very clear, from the first, that this film is the game changer, which is appropriate when you’re introducing us to phase 2. let me just state now though: i really liked the film. but i am also very worried.
all i learned from the new cap america is that he’s madly in love with bucky barnes and bucky barnes doesnt give a fuck about milk
do you ever just think about how stunned and delighted steve rogers would be by supermarkets
like, obviously he’d pretty quickly calm down and start learning about food deserts and immigrant labor and environmentally safe practices and he’d have Feelings, but, like, the boy grew up during the great depression, just imagine the very first time he steps into a grocery store
"natasha they have sixteen kinds of peanut butter here"
"natasha look they have a display of oranges LOOK MORE ORANGES OVER THERE HOW MANY ORANGES CAN YOU EVEN HAVE, IT’S FEBRUARY"
"natasha there’s ice cream in TWENTY-TWO DIFFERENT FLAVORS"
"natasha they have so much food. natasha they have SO MUCH FOOD, NATASHA, CAN WE BUY ALL THE FOOD"